Talk Me Down!

Barack Obama has chosen Pastor Rick Warren to deliver the invocation at his inauguration.

WASHINGTON – President-elect Barack Obama on Thursday defended his choice of a popular evangelical minister to deliver the invocation at his inauguration, rejecting criticism that it slights gays. The selection of Pastor Rick Warren brought objections from gay rights advocates, who strongly supported Obama during the election campaign. The advocates are angry over Warren’s backing of a California ballot initiative banning gay marriage. That measure was approved by voters last month.

Associated Press

Did you hear that? It was the sound of my heart dropping.

Why this pastor? Just because he invited Obama to speak at his church? I don’t think that’s a good reason at all.

Pastor Warren, while enjoying a reputation as a moderate based on his affable personality and his church’s engagement on issues like AIDS in Africa, has said that the real difference between James Dobson and himself is one of tone rather than substance. He has recently compared marriage by loving and committed same-sex couples to incest and pedophilia. He has repeated the Religious Right’s big lie that supporters of equality for gay Americans are out to silence pastors. He has called Christians who advance a social gospel Marxists. He is adamantly opposed to women having a legal right to choose an abortion.

People for the American Way

I understand that Obama wants to bring people together and create an atmosphere in which we can disagree without being disagreeable. I want that too! But Warren is not a person who respectfully disagrees with the views and opinions of others. He has compared gay marriage to incest and pedophilia for crying out loud! He has compared abortion to the Holocaust! He supports, promotes and actively campaigns for legalized discrimination and against civil rights. He has made a career of being divisive and he believes that his religious beliefs are the only way to gauge right and wrong, good and bad, moral and immoral.

Rick Warren does not represent unity in any way, shape or form, or by any stretch of the imagination. I am confused and even offended by Obama’s decision to have this man deliver the invocation at his inauguration.

Can anyone talk me down? Should I be talked down?

Posted by Lottie — Copyright © 2008 Rambling On

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18 responses to “Talk Me Down!

  • Marianne

    Gays need to get over this. The world does not revolve around them. Other people have different views and they need to be respected also.

    Usually a pastor is invited to give the invocation. That is the tradition. Gays will just have to respect the fact that non gays actually have the right to pray, and have their own lives as well.

  • Lottie

    Marianne,
    I went ahead and allowed your comment because it provides a stunning example of ignorance, irrational thought and an inability to reason — nothing in your comment logically follows anything in my post.

    Or perhaps you accidentally responded to the wrong post?

    Maybe you should try reading it again (don’t be afraid to ask for help if you need it) and then see if you can think of something less asinine to say. Or at least something relevant.

    But I do like to showcase a genuine case of bigotry from time to time, just as a reminder of how hideous it is. Thanks for your contribution.

    In closing, how about a nice game of Spot the Irony:

    Gays need to get over this. […] Other people have different views and they need to be respected also.

    Anyone?

  • saintpaulgrrl

    Personally, I’m not at all in favor of there being any kind of religious figure invoking prayers and blessings at an official government ceremony, regardless of who he or she is. Someone is bound to be offended by the beliefs of the religious figurehead in the spotlight. The best solution would be to dispense with that altogether. The next best solution in a distant second-place position would be to choose someone with middle-ground inocuous opinions, but that seldom happens.

    I don’t feel good about the whole situation, either, Lottie. 😦

  • kmcdade

    No, you’re right – he’s not just someone with different beliefs, he’s someone who wants to impose his beliefs on others. It’s too bad, because until recently Warren seemed like he was doing a lot of good things and not being obnoxious like some evangelical leaders.

  • B.T. Murtagh

    NO, you shouldn’t be talked down, Obama should be. I respect his political sense enough to know he did this on purpose, but not enough to think he’s doing the right thing. “Agreeing without being disagreeable” is noble enough, but that’s a far cry from showering unasked for honors on people who are openly bigoted, and most particularly people openly bigoted against a community that has been so unstinting in support.

    I understand the cynically pragmatic reasoning, but I’m unconvinced that it’s a good choice even in that respect. Obama thinks he can remain popular with the constituencies he’s insulting with this choice, and curry favor with Warren’s crowd at the same time. My gut instinct tells me he’s doing more damage to his standing with the former than he’s allowing for, and will gain far, far less than he hopes with the latter.

    Maybe his calculations will turn out to be a better predictor than my gut; he’s undoubtedly smarter than I am and this is his field of expertise, in which he’s been remarkably successful. If so I certainly hope he accomplishes worthwhile things with the gains that he otherwise couldn’t have, because in my eyes this move, like his FISA capitulation, is awfully hard to see the good in and is unlikely to be a cherished part of his historical legacy.

  • waltzinexile

    Oh, Lottie. I love that you’re not afraid of dissenting tripe. And it’s not like you need any help with her, but I’m going to chime in with my questions for Marianne, should she come back:
    1) Does Marianne really not know (or know of?) any gay people who pray? REALLY?
    B) Does Marianne really not know (or know of?) any straight people who dislike Rick Warren?

    I think she should get out more.

  • pinkespresso

    No, you shouldn’t be talked down at all.

    I’m fine with Obama being religious (not saying you aren’t :)) but I don’t like it being brought into politics. Religion is something that should be personal. I believe in God–do I care if someone else does? Hell no! They’re not me. The idea works for me, it doesn’t for everyone. If it doesn’t work for someone, why on earth should they bother with it then?

    And to Marianne: get over yourself. This isn’t a “gays vs the Church” battle, because that’s not an actual battle that exists. The inherent contradiction in your statement about gays needing to “get over it” because there are “different world views”–hello, can you say hypocrite? You can’t ask for tolerance for your own beliefs if you won’t give it to other people for their beliefs and for who they are.

  • thehun

    @ Marianne

    You’re responce was so off the issue, ignorant of the situation and the facts, that you’ve made it very easy for every post afterward to thoroughly tear down your comment. You made no point what so ever.

    I can only regret that I jumped in late in the game and that any comment I make will only be redundant to whatever has been said.

    Basically you made a fool of yourself by saying that gays are trying to take away your right to pray. Nobody said that.

    You said other people have different views and need to be respected also. On this account you are 100% correct. Sadly your application of this is backwards. Rick Warrens views on gays or anyone who does not hold to his particular religious views have be the extact opposite of respectful. They are factually wrong, insulting, dehumanizing, and have tread on the civil rights of gays.

    You say that non gays have the right to lead their own lives. Non gay religious(mainly) groups are the ones stoping gays from leading their own lives. Prop 8 had nothing to do with you life.

    I certainly hope you read these comments to get your head straight regarding what this issue is about since you could not be bothered to get a handle on it in the first place. After that I would hope that you can make a more rational response.

    @lottie… girl I think you’ve been talked up instead of down 😛

  • thehun

    ahhh…. sorry, I spent so much time addressing the first comment that I forgot to weigh in on what i thought of the Rick Warren thing.

    My quick and dirty comment: I don’t like it. I get the political reaching out, and things not being helped if people won’t talk to each other, yadda, yadda, yadda.

    I think Obama could reach out and start a dialogue in a different way. Rick Warren received an grossly undeserved honor that goes beyond reaching out to someone with a different view to start a dialogue.

  • Lottie

    Wow! I want to thank all of you for your feedback. I’m really pressed for time and regret that I can’t address each of you individually just now, but I do appreciate all of you and always welcome your comments.

    Busy, busy… better get back to it now.

  • girldujour

    I’m with saintpaulgrrl and pinkespresso.

    Can you say SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE?

    I’m not affiliated with any organized religion OR political party and I don’t see how this fits in at all.

    Now that I got that off my chest, did you hear that Jerry Brown, California Attorney General, wants Proposition 8 INVALIDATED, citing INALIENABLE RIGHTS.

    http://girldujour.wordpress.com/2008/12/20/california-attorney-general-jerry-brown-says-that-proposition-8-should-be-invalidate-go-jerry/

    BTW, thanks for the good post and genuine commentary on your comments. Good stuff.

  • Lottie

    That’s good news! Thanks.

  • truthwalker

    Well, here’s variety of thoughts which may or may not be cynical crap.

    (1.) Obama is nothing but a tool of the Democratic party and is taking the position that his party masters demand.
    (2.) Obama recognizes the power of Warren’s political machine, and want to make sure he can have a slice of the pie.
    (3.) Obama grabbed the most conservative person he could without outright losses his support base in a calculated attempt to broaden his demographic appeal.
    (4.) He threw evangelicals a bone to keep them the strongest voice in Christian continuum, rather than risk some of the real crazies gaining power over the Christian vote. (Yes, Warren peddles hate, but he is not even remotely as dangerous as say, Tim LaHaye.) Keeping the evangelicals in charge of the Christian political machine mean the the fundies aren’t.
    (5.) Accepting (4.) He could be trying to avoid civil war and or terrorist movement in the next 10 to 50 years.
    (6.) He is sincerely trying to destroy the existing paradigm of 50% voting one way and 50% voting the other that makes people totally blind to the kind of compromise that democracy needs.
    (7.) He said whatever it took to get elected, and now begins the task of saying whatever it takes to get elected again in 4 years.
    (8.) He’s buttering up the Christian right for a future official prayer by a non-Christian.
    (9.) In the end he is going to do exactly what McCain would have done, because he was elected by the same single party, and he must obey.
    (10.)Rick Warren is Rupert Murdoch’s pastor. Murdoch owns both the publishing company of A purpose driven life AND (more darkly) the Fox News. Obama is paying off Fox News for future services.

  • dam

    Hey! Great post and interesting comments. Of course, you know I’m totally on board with you! I’d address Marianne, but she’s already taken a good beating.

  • truthwalker

    Ok, seriously you have got to check out Marianne’s website. It’s 42 kinds of crazy. Just so everyone knows, that the kind of environment this ex-Christian was raised in. If my mom could type, she would totally have a website like that.

  • Lottie

    Truthwalker,

    I saw it! It’s freaky, huh? Did you see the page on demon possession?

    😯

    Sorry you were subjected to that growing up. You’ve come a long way, baby!

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